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You know, I almost – almost, mind you, can understand tops on either side of a free standing stove not being lined up both level and along the front. It’s a bit tacky, but with a tall cabinet next to it, or a stove that overwhelms the area so much, you could get away with it.
What I can’t forgive are cabinets across a dishwasher, garbage compactor, or slide in/drop in stove that are not lined up and level with each side. To an installer who does not have to install tops over these, it’s no biggy. To him the cabinets are not connected, so who’s gonna notice? Easier than to take the time to level things up, and hey, he’s not the one installing the tops, so who gives a rat’s patoot?
To that installer I say:
“You, sir, are a cheap, unprofessional hack, who could care less about your customer, let alone the guy coming in behind you to install the tops.”I mean, does he really think the customer willl blame us for exposed shims, or having to trim out the exposed shims after we’re done levelling the top? Sure, some will, but I think most will all of a sudden scratch that guy off their referal list. With good reason, I might add.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled info exchange. We are sorry for the interruption.
Signed,
Frustrated countertop installer
Why, oh why did you have to put that into writing? It somehow makes the decline of Western Civilization more tangible when you do that. I guess I’ll have to look on the positive side and thatnk you for providing me an aerobic workout while never leaving my desk!
No kidding. I like the cabinets that are about an 1″ difference front to back. The just screw them to the wall and call it good. Now I have a 1 1/4″ overhang on one side and a 2 1/4″ on the other. Looks like crap and then Mrs. Jones blames me. Try to explain that one so it makes sense to a customer.
Installing cabinets, to me, is one of the easiest trades there is. Base cabs, shoot a laser line at 34 1/2″ above the floor at any given point. Measure from the floor to that line every foot, while moving around the room. When you have found the area with the shortest height, (i.e. less than 34 1/2″) raise the laser line to 34 1/2″ at that location and shim everything else up to it. It ain’t rocket science.
Yeah, Brad, I guess it’s one of those “things of which we do not speak”, and should have been kept there. Your weelcome on the caloric elimination episode.I remember my Father saying that they used to find a mid-point in the floor and either scribe down or shim up at the average. Took more time, but was a better job. Nowadays I’d be happy if they just came through level and straight.
Andy, the only thing that could beat that are the installers who don’t use shims when installing a simple vanity cabinet. They either Use the thread as a spacer, or don’t even bother, and the customer is left to wonder why their drawers don’t work right.
Tom
Norm W. wrote
Installing cabinets, to me, is one of the easiest trades there is. Base cabs, shoot a laser line at 34 1/2″ above the floor at any given point. Measure from the floor to that line every foot, while moving around the room. When you have found the area with the shortest height, (i.e. less than 34 1/2″) raise the laser line to 34 1/2″ at that location and shim everything else up to it. It ain’t rocket science.
But Norm, Some people, if they have a new floor, likes the look of no base shoe around the bottom of cabinets. All my cabinets have exposed feet, columns or something hitting the floor, so I have to find the 34 1/2″ on the low mark and sand off the rest of the cabinets to fit. Sure it is work, but it is a job I do. I just don’t believe there is a place for shims under cabinets. That is what the belt sander is for!! I certainly don’t ever want to get into Tom’s catagory.
Tom,
I feel your pain, I take my 8’ level with me on all measures
and templates now because I will not put up with that kind of work on new
cabinet installs. I show the customer how far off it is and tell them the
cabinet installer must have missed it and they need to call him back out to fix
it before I return to do the install… period. I have gotten burnt so many times
by trying to be a nice guy and tell them I will shim it or take care of it
somehow, so not anymore, if the lame ass cabinet installer can’t get it right
he should find another trade. I would bet that seven out of ten new cabinet installs
are off by ¼” or more across the dishwasher opening and that is BULLSPIT!! (as
Dave would put it).As far as setting the cabinets I guess a lot of it would
depend if it was going on a finished floor or not, and if not what kind of
floor was going down and weather it would hide the shims…Scribing all the cabs
to the floor is A LOT of work, I admire your hard work KC but I agree with Norm
on finding the high spot and shimming the rest.Shane
Kelsey, I see what you are saying about cabs with feet or arched valances and such. I haven’t done any of those yet but when I do, I’ll make sure to charge a heck of alot more, thanks for making me think about something I probably wouldn’t have. The fanciest I have gotten is an extended bottom rail with a valance.
What do you guys do when the cabinets sets on quarry tile? Do you still shim and then cover the shims with base shoe??
Kelsey, most of the time the customer wants to replace the flooring also, it is almost always going to be ceramic tile, in which case the toe kick gets grouted in.
Norm, I have set a few factory cabs, all installed on new floors. In your senario, I would use shims, if the floor is not in. I find sanding the bottom is just as easy as shimming. How much time does it take to sand 3/8 particle board.. (what I find most cab are made from around here) with a 36grit sander? We set tops on brand new jobs where the contractor had the cabs in first, and then put the big 3/4×3/4 quarter round all around the bottom. I just think that is not the right way to do it, just a faster way. To each their own….
Kelsey, I use Kraftmaid cabinets, they come with a field installed toe kick that I can scribe and trim to the contour of the floor if needed. As far as particle board cabinets, I can upgrade the cabs I use to plywood, my thought has always been, what is the difference between plywood or particle board boxes? If either of them get wet you are in trouble, plywood will delaminate and particle board will swell.
I was just talking about this same thing to the owner here yesterday. We have about 10 installers for cabinets and a majority of them should find other lines of work. (they are being replaced when we can). However we have one guy that if I follow him with my tops I never even need a single shim. I want him to give lessons to the other on the proper use of a level.
Your level is your friend
Jcristina,
Maybe you can have that installer make a video on HOW TO SET CABINETS….LOL……A test will be given on the next install I follow you on
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